Name: Rethinking Recruitment: Science-Based Strategies to Support Autistic & Neurodivergent Talent
Uploaded: 2026-05-12T03:35:12.559Z
Duration: 1 h 50 s
Description: Rethinking Recruitment: Science-Based Strategies to Support Autistic & Neurodivergent Talent

Transcript for "Rethinking Recruitment: Science-Based Strategies to Support Autistic & Neurodivergent Talent": Kristy, how are you going? Oh, thank you. Jaymon, you've been doing pretty well. It's a machine. How many do you have? Do you know? Nice work. Amazing. Alright. Well, we will just give one more minute to go by, and then we will jump in and get started. We're really excited about this topic today, and it's so wonderful how many people have joined us. It's just it's great to see the level of interest, and how everyone really is encouraged and wants to be able to do better with, how we can have a more inclusive experience for recruiting across the board. Alright. Well, we will just go ahead and get started then. Thank you again for joining us today. So my name is Kellie Pattee Isdale. I'm part of the customer success team here in APAC. I am based just North Of Sydney. in the now sunny much, Central, Coast. and quite big this morning. to everybody and by my colleague, Edie Kelly's sentiments. Jaymon, our organizational for spending, your lunch hour the incredible team, us and hopefully, from Aspect Australia. a lot of valuable Everybody's gonna do a little mini well. introduction when they get to their section. just going But before we get started, to move across the slides. to hand over to Kristy Kelly who's going to deliver our, just like to take a moment country, today along with, acknowledge country. So, a little bit of a meeting Aspect and Hirevue. acknowledge the traditional is going to walk us through some correct terminology Australia, about inclusive their continuing we can all be, set up, for success for the remainder. of the webinar. Today, I, am, joining from the lands of the Cammeraygal. people, and I encourage each of you to spend, a a quiet moment now just reflecting and recognizing the owners, and the traditional custodians of the land from which you may be joining this, webinar today as well. So we'd like to pay our respects to them and to their elders past and present and we would like to extend a very warm welcome to any Aboriginal and or Torres Strait Islander people joining us for today's session as well. And, this statement of inclusion. So this is sharing, something that we created and used quite systematically at Aspect and it's an opportunity for me and I guess the the co presenters as well just to let each of you know that, your presence today but also your participation is incredibly valued and we want you to feel really comfortable to do whatever it may be that allows you to be fully present and to participate. So, there are a number of us using our own personal regulation they may be things like sensory tools. It might be a weighted blanket. It might be people getting up, and pacing. You aren't on camera so hopefully that does relieve a number of you as well, just in terms of that add on as well but please feel free to use any strategy that you have available to you that is supportive for you so that you can sit, engage and learn as much as you can from today's session. And I'm just going to hand over, to Edie now for a little update on inclusive language. Thank you so much, Kristy. I wanna echo that sentiment. We hope that everyone feels welcome here today. And, I'm using the strategy of having an electric blanket because it's feeling really cold where I am. So, yeah, feel free to do what works for you. So just a quick note on inclusive language. We just wanna acknowledge that language around neurodiversity can be super confusing and that there are a lot of different terms, many of which sound very similar, and they're not always used consistently. So we just wanna take a moment to let every everyone know that the goal here isn't perfection. We're all people of human, hopefully, here. I. just yeah. We want to make sure that it's about showing good intention and signaling respect and understanding as best you can rather than striving for perfection. So just noting that preferences can also vary between individuals and communities. So listening and being open to correction, more than knowing every little definition is what's very important. And so if you get something wrong, that's completely fine. Just be willing to learn and listen to people's experiences. So just a quick note here. Generally, autistic people prefer, what we call identity first language. So this means we we say autistic people, not people with autism. And there are a couple of other definitions here. I won't go through everything because like I said, it's very complicated and confusing, so I will let everyone digest that in their own time. Amazing. Thank you so much, Edie. Really appreciate that. And, like she said, it's not about perfection. And one of the things that Kristy and Edie both reminded me when we started this was that, you know, it is about the intent and making sure that we're doing it and it's coming from a good place, and it's okay if it's not always correct. Alright. So just a few housekeeping things before we get started. As you can see, we have got a jam packed agenda. Super excited about all the different things we get to talk about today. But just housekeeping items, we are going to send a recording along with a copy of our rethinking recruitment guide and some additional resources to everyone that's attended. If you do have any questions that come up that you'd like to have answered during the q and a, please feel free to leave those in the chat panel over there on the right hand side. Hopefully, we'll get to most of those. If not, we can send you a follow-up response. And then we also have some polls that we'll be asking throughout the session. So, for interaction and reflections, we'd love to have you participate on those as well. So just moving right into it, we're going to go to our first poll today. So the reason why we wanted to ask this particular it's anonymous. question that's coming up, one will know what you answer. is because we know that neurodiversity can touch everybody. I can't see if the poll's up, but is it? Do we can anybody see it? It should be up there on the right hand side. I don't have yes. There we go. Amazing. So what we wanted to understand, you know, just a little bit about more about the audience and if you identify as autistic or neurodivergent or if you know somebody that is, if you're both or, neither. So we'd really love to just understand a little bit, you know, get a pulse on and everybody in the room. So I can see the poll over there now. Alright. Yes. Thank you, Edie, for calling that out. It is anonymous. Alright. So when we have a second in about ten more seconds, we'll, get those results up. And, you know, we know that usually the response for this is overwhelmingly yes, you know, whether identifying or at least knowing somebody that does. You know, this isn't a niche workforce conversation anymore. This is something that not just affects our organizations, our communities, our families, and it is really important that we have an inclusive experience for everybody. Yeah. So this is amazing. So do we have nobody that said my math is bad, so we can't add this up fast enough. Yeah. It looks like there we go. So it looks like there was everybody either identifies, knows somebody, or both. So that is, you know, really telling of just how many people, are affected and touched by somebody that is autistic or, neurodivergent. Thank you for that. Alright. So that's just going to take us nicely into sort of the core idea behind today's session. You know, we obviously hear people talk about talent shortage, and we know that there isn't necessarily a talent shortage as much as there is a hiring design problem. You know, hiring has been designed, especially traditional hiring, for those who are really good at interviewing to be successful unintentionally, usually, but, not necessarily people that are going to be the best at the job. And why this really matters is that it has a staggering impact on, neurodivergent and autistic employees. Autistic, especially, are really hit hard with the unemployment rate. So you can see up there that we have, more than double the rate for autistic people compared to, other disabilities and six times the rate for people without disabilities. And that's a huge impact, especially thinking that, you know, there are over six hundred and seventy five thousand autistic Australians. And this isn't a niche issue. You know, this is something where we can actually tap into this as a competitive advantage. We know that employed autistic, Australians, fifty four percent of them, actually, fifty four percent are oh my gosh. I just completely logged my lost my train of thought. So all by now, forty five percent of them, do believe that they could do more than what they're currently doing in their role, and 54% want to work more hours. So even those that are working, you know, have the opportunity to just do a lot more. And when we think of that competitive advantage, you know, we can tap into people that, you know, have problem solving, creativity, hyperfocus, detail orientation, all these incredible skills that we don't even get a chance to see because of the way that hiring per hiring is designed at the moment. One of the really interesting stats that has stuck with me for quite a while is, Deloitte did a study in 2023 around Gen zed, and fifty three percent of Gen zed employees self identified as being neurodivergent. So when you think of that, you know, in 2040 when they're going to be the majority of the populate or the majority of the workforce, that's gonna be have a huge impact. And so in fifteen years, you know, we're not going to be accommodating for these candidates. We're going to be competing for these candidates. And I think also the more AI and stuff comes into play, you know, being able to have people that think differently, innovative, creative, that's what's gonna really help separate separate our organizations. So, again, that competitive advantage. And just briefly, you know, what's getting in the way? Again, you know, it's not that lack of willingness of, wanting to do better or that companies don't care, but it is that, you know, that real traditional recruitment focuses on a very narrow view of what good looks and sounds like. And that's also where Hirevue as an organization comes into play, you know, with our tools like assessments and structured interviews, which jam Jaymon will be getting into in just a few minutes, is how we can help you create processes that are more fair, and less biased for your candidates. much, Kellie. I'm just. going to move those slides we've created. with, Aspect Australia guess, where do we the? talented community as Kellie said, rethinking recruitment hiring. This is going to help you take some way and evidence based tips that are really easy to. implement to be able everybody's help candidates feel more comfortable, certainly, a commitment, and really able to showcase those do. better, sometimes it's a little bit difficult to understand more, how we best set that up in the system second, so that we can create get change copy of this at. the end of the, So I think, first and foremost, webinar as well. inclusion has to start long over to to Kristy and let her tell us a little bit more about rethinking a candidate, recruitment design. you know, through the screening process or even through the interview process as well. So, this first section where I'll be covering is just sharing a little bit more with you about some of the purposeful changes you can consider implementing that will, again, support a more inclusive, recruitment process, throughout for new roles and new candidates that you're seeking to attract. So in the first instance, I think it probably goes without saying, but obviously having a clear understanding, and definition of the role that you're seeking to recruit for is obviously really important. Knowing that removes all the guesswork and certainly makes expectations clear for everybody within the organisation and certainly those that you're wanting to attract to the organisation as well. Now clearly defining the role, it's really important because when the purpose of the role is clear, then the candidates are much more likely to understand what success looks like and it makes your selection fairer and your ability to measure performance, much easier as well. So, as I guess a few, kind of purposeful things that you can be doing if you aren't already, is thinking about starting with a job analysis. Now having worked in HR myself and knowing often a lot of the talent, attraction and processes that you're working through, composite to a lot of other priorities, it can be really easy to just, almost rinse and repeat from who you've had in that role previously or what the position description, you know, that may have been created a few years back, has actually mentioned is needed for the role as well. What we're saying is actually take a step back and talk to the people who are doing the role, identifying the skills that really matter to the success of the role rather than just assuming it's the ones that you know or the ones that are mentioned in the position description. So just being a little bit more intentional to really uncover if that role has changed, if things are differently required than what they may have been previously. I think another really important point here is around focusing on skills. So it's not still, I think, unheard of that in a lot of, I guess, you know, position profiles, and also in, you know, definitions of roles that there's this arbitrary expectation of a certain number of years experience or a certain amount of skills that are required to do the role and I think it's about really challenging and testing ourselves as to if that's actually the case or not or if that's just where we're comfortable. The unfortunate reality is that particularly when it comes to prescribed years of experience in different sectors or different roles, it can actually have a really unintentional but exclusive impact on those who may not have, linear career paths, which is actually quite a lot of people. It is quite common within the autistic and neurodivergent population, but can also be quite common with other generations and other, segments and cohorts, of talent candidates as well. So, you know, really questioning ourselves as to if that's a necessity, if it's a true requirement for the role actually being able to be done or, as I said, is it just something that we've become comfortable with over time and we haven't really challenged ourselves on that? And then I think importantly also thinking about you know knowing what we know about the role, thinking more structurally I guess around what's the right interview, what's the right assessment process that we want to you know work through and what are the skills that we can really identify explicitly throughout that. And you know getting really explicit with that identification, with the setting up of the structure and process to really align with that rather than just relying on, again, I think a little bit of the tried and true, you know, is this person a culture fit for this organization and or for the team? So those are some really important things, I think, for you, you know, to think a little bit more clearly about when you're looking at defining the role. And I think once that role is then clearer, it obviously becomes much easier to explain it to candidates. And this is really then where you're thinking about how can you create a clear and accessible position description. So, you know, that position description is what communicates to candidates, what's expected of the role, what's going to be valued by the organization. And so making this as clear and as accessible as possible is going to be a huge help, not only for you as an organization, and as talent acquisition professionals, but also for the candidates that you're seeking to attract. So I think the clearer you can make, this position description, the more it can reduce anxiety and ambiguity, that actually then helps candidates decide really clearly if that role is right or not for them. And this really matters because autistic and neurodivergent candidates really do rely on quite clear information. They can be very literal, to assess, you know, whether or not they have the suitability for the role, but also to make sure that personally they can feel confident in knowing what's expected of the role and whether or not they have that or not. Often, you know, I will hear stories about people who have applied for roles, made it through to interview, and then realize that with there was a whole other side of the role that they hadn't really been made aware of upfront. And if they had have been made aware of it, it wouldn't have been a role that they would have necessarily applied for. So I think being clear, and making it as accessible as possible upfront. So how do you do that? A few things to keep in mind, you know, using plain English, which I think goes without saying that benefits everybody, not just autistic candidates. But, you know, using short sentences for every sentence, one, kind of concept or thought, making sure that there's none of this, I guess, jargon or slang or metaphors that can be, you know, quite commonplace like, you know, a a gun, you know, salesperson or, whatever whatever the terms are that are being used, but really taking that out and stripping it back to the language that is gonna be meaningful for people who may not exist within that organization. You know, thinking, within that position description about, you know, designing for readability. So thinking about making sure that it's not just a whole lot of words on a page, but that it is structured with headings and bullet space bullet points, sorry, and white space, all of which can make it much more, decipherable and digestible for not only autistic candidates and neurodivergent candidates, but I think everybody as well. I think, being as clear as you can about the expectations for the role. So, you know, if there are absolutely compulsory or essential criteria versus desirable criteria, making sure that that's really explicit. And where possible, you know, thinking about different modalities and how you might be able to, you know, support a broader understanding of what a day in the role might look like or a week in the role might look like. And there are certainly some organisations now doing amazing jobs of being able to do that in a video that the position description links through to, all of which is just creating greater clarity, and greater predictability for candidates as to what's expected. And then I think from there, you've got a really clear position description. Now it's about translating, again, your intention and commitment to having a really inclusive job ad. And, again, the guide goes through a lot of this detail. But, you know, it is really important. It supports, again, people to feel safe, to be able to apply for that organization. You know, it is things like using simple and specific and relatable language. It's avoiding those biased, or loaded phrases, you know, like the fast paced, like, thrives under pressure, you know, ability to multitask, all of those sorts of things, and replaces them with actual clear descriptions of what work needs to be done and what support to enable that work to be done can actually exist as well. So, you know, a few other things that would be really helpful, in crafting a really inclusive position, ad is being as clear as you can about things like salary range, like location, like working arrangements, be it remote or hybrid, how many days might be required in office, if any, you know, sharing a little bit more about what that recruitment process looks like, what candidates can expect, you know, providing a contact information, be it an email or even a phone number, so that if candidates have questions, they can actually clarify those before deciding if they're going to submit an application or not. And, certainly, we'd always recommend that within your, job ads that you have an explicit encouragement to apply statement. And essentially, that's a statement that makes it really clear, that you encourage autistic and neurodivergent candidates to apply in the same way that you may encourage females to apply or Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander candidates to apply as well. And it just helps reinforce quite explicitly that they are welcome, that this is a safe place where these things have been thought of, and can give them a lot of confidence in being able to apply for the role as well. So I think, you know, importantly, when we would when we, sorry, consciously design the roles, when we think descriptions that we're creating and the ads that we're creating as well. When we have clarity and inclusion in mind, we're not talking about here lowering the standards to access a different talent pool. We're actually just talking about making intentional changes that will widen your access to an even greater talent pool than what you may already be accessing today. And with that, I'm going to hand over now to Jaymon to share a little bit more around the science of neurodivergence and hiring. Over to you Jaymon. Thanks, Kristy. So, yeah, basically, what I'm gonna be talking a little bit about is once we've kind of gone through all the things that Kristy has shared around defining the job a bit clearer and advertising the job, as inclusively as we can, we start working into the process of how we're going to hire people to perform that job. I'm going to be talking about some of the areas where bias can emerge, towards autistic candidates in that process. So, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone on this call who has an interest in talent acquisition, but in hiring when it when we've got humans evaluating other humans, there's the opportunity for bias to occur. And what what I'm gonna be talking about is some of the specific ways that research has shown how that bias can show up against autistic candidates in the hiring process. So one of the main ways or one of the main areas that that bias can appear is through the interview. Obviously, when we're doing hiring a lot of the time, if not most or all of the time, there's going to be some sort of interview as part of that process and interviews are where a lot of these biases can kind of creep in. So we know that as part of interviews there tends to be an over reliance on appearance and social presentation, be that kind of eye contact, body language, handshakes, anything like that. And what this means for autistic candidates is that their first impressions of these candidates does tend to be substantially poorer than for non autistic candidates. And these first impressions then matter because they subsequently impact the perceptions of the interviewer's perceptions of how well they think that person will do the job. And this has been shown in studies where they've looked at evaluating autistic and non autistic candidates via, watching a video a a recording of an interview and just simply reading the transcript. And they found that when the, evaluators just read the transcript as opposed to watching the video of their interview, they actually evaluated autistic candidates as effectively, if not more effectively, than non autistic candidates. So there's clearly a lot of nonverbal things that are going on in, in an interview, in an interview environment that are disadvantaging autistic candidates. But unfortunately, it's not just those nonverbal things. So it can also come in through the, you know, the content of what those autistic candidates are saying as well. Research shows that autistic candidates tend to provide shorter, more literal, and concise responses. So when an interviewer might be expecting a longer and more fruity and more kind of, more descriptive response, they might then naturally kind of evaluate an autistic candidate who has provided that shorter and literal more concise response. They might evaluate that more negatively compared to what their kind of expectation was in terms of the the response that they were gonna get back. And then similarly, autistic candidates have been shown to engage less in impression management. So what I mean by impression management is combination of verbal and nonverbal behaviors that candidates engage in to give themselves a better chance of getting the job. So making sure when you're describing your interviewer, interview responses that you're conveying yourself in the best light and kind of, really trying to put your put your best foot forward or also engaging in nonverbal behaviors that kind of assist with that as well, you know, maintaining eye contact, smiling, those sorts of things. If autistic candidates, aren't engaging in those behaviors as much, and again, if interviewers are kind of expecting to see those behaviors through, how they've kind of historically, evaluated interviews, then naturally, again, autistic candidates can be evaluated more negatively, again, due to things that aren't necessarily related to do with their ability to do the job. It's simply with their ability to kind of show up in, normative or expected ways in interviews. So those are some of the kind of main areas that bias can show up towards autistic candidates through the interview process. And it's also kind of shows up through other areas of the hiring process as well. So CV screening, still is a very consistent and very common practice within hiring processes. And this is despite us knowing, for based on kind of decades of research that the number of years experience is actually a very poor performer of job performance. So, they're just purely kind of similar to what Kristy was saying, having kind of an arbitrary number of years of experience that you need to sort of meet the criteria and able to do this job doesn't necessarily back up with the kind of science, around whether that experience actually makes you better at doing the job. And then when you're relying on looking at but looking for that information through a CV screen, that naturally disadvantages candidates, if if they have limited work history or they have career gaps. And as Kellie kind of pointed out at the start, autistic candidates, tend to have higher rates of unemployment or underemployment. So naturally their CVs might be then a little bit shorter on on those work experiences, which can then disadvantage them through that CV screening process. And this doesn't really matter if it's a manual CV screen that you're doing yourself or automated CV screen that technology is assisting you with. Anytime you're relying on that information, that you're getting through the CVs can disadvantage autistic candidates. And when that's happening kind of right at the top of the funnel of the hiring process, then it's setting that barrier right at the start that autistic candidates might not even get their get their way through to two interviews or two assessments to be able to show, what they're capable of doing and their potential fit for the job. And then talking about fit for the job, one of my personal kind of, personal least favorite concepts within the hiring space is culture fit. So culture fit when it's done right and you define culture fit well and you measure it well and objectively and you link it to job and that organizational outcomes can be okay. But so often culture fit is used as this very broad and vague term, which kind of essentially boils down to, would I wanna grab a beer with this person or would I wanna hang out with this person socially? Are they going to fit within my preconceived notions of what the organization or what the or what the team, consists of? And then naturally that can become, that can be used as a kind of an excuse to exclude people who might not fit what that, pre preconceived notions are or who might be perceived to be slightly different, from what the what the expectations are. So again, can be a sort of a concept that can be disadvantaging towards autistic candidates as well. So, again, when we're relying too heavily on purely culture fit as a poorly defined concept, it can, then have implications for, biasing towards, autistic candidates. So, what I've kind of touched on there obviously are some of the kind of main areas that bias, can occur through the hiring process towards autistic candidates. What I'm gonna do now is hand over to Kellie and Edie to talk bring that to life a little bit and talk about some kind of lived experience, examples of kind of how this can play out through hiring experience through hiring processes. Yes. Definitely. Thank you. again, Wonderful. like you said, so much, for the opportunity Kristy. to share a more. personal perspective because I think it's this, really great to obviously know our facts. and not every day we get, to, actually hear about to lived able to share, how this actually know, we know that it's that human more personal level. that really, brings us to life for I'll. just say that I've had quite a diverse range of experiences be joined here with, sectors. So I've worked in hospitality, Edie from, Aspect Australia, and she's going to, gen, right now, generously share also in more corporate organizations a candidate, and also in education. an autistic person. I, would say that each of, those sectors again its own unique us, challenges but, also strengths just wondering with it. you can tell us a little bit, overall, about your experience say that candidate there are generally that journey has have like for you. my experience. The first being how comfortable and accepted I feel to be my authentic self. And, you might not know what I mean by this, but what I mean is that, I like to think that I'm a relatively capable person, and I'm able to do what I call outwardly perform relatively well. So that means if I'm having a conversation with someone, they generally might think, I might perform well in an interview, but this actually comes at a really big cost to me. And this means that I get a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress from having to represent myself in a way that I think is desired. Obviously, everyone does this to an extent in an interview, but for autistic people, and, I've definitely experienced this a lot myself, this is really particularly difficult because the gap between what we're presenting and who we really are is such a large thing that it can become a very, very exhausting process of having to sort of monitor what you do every day. And, yeah, so having a workplace that sets the expectation during recruitment where I can feel comfortable to be able to do this, allows me to actually use that energy that I spent doing all of that, to do my job and to represent myself, authentically. And that is, an excellent thing, highly recommend. But in my experience, unfortunately, this has varied quite a lot depending on different sectors and depending on different roles. So for example, I would say, in hospitality, this seems to be something that is quite quite good, a bit more of that ability to be, less formal, and that sort of lends itself naturally to being, a bit more authentic. And, on the flip side of that, I would say in more corporate organizations, there tends to be more sort of rigid expectations of how people behave or as as Jaymon said, the the culture fit is a big one. So, yeah, that's been something that is hugely impactful. Secondly, I would say so I said two things. Yeah. The second thing is how I'm supported, throughout the process. And I would say, it's great, obviously, to be able to feel accepted, but if you don't actually receive any support during the hiring process, that can really disadvantage, candidates. And in my experience, I would say the more preparation I've been provided, the not only the more comfortable I feel, but also the better I will actually perform. And I hopefully, Kristy can attest to this, in my, recruitment experience with Aspect, but I would say it really makes a big difference right from reading the job ad through to the interview, through to onboarding, and then even my experience as an employee. Getting preparation for the recruitment process, but especially the interview, has made a huge difference. So that could be having the interview in different formats, more or less structured depending on the the need, or, really just giving information beforehand, like, giving the interview questions beforehand. That has been what I think would would have affected my experience the most. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I think one of the most difficult things is what we call hidden rules and expectations. So these are things that people might naturally know. A lot of people might know, you know, what to wear to an interview, how to behave, depending on the kind of, workplace that you're applying for. But, for a lot of autistic people, these things actually aren't obvious. So I'll give an example of, I've come one one of my first jobs that I ever had an interview for, I came dressed in a suit, because I thought that's what you do when you do an interview, but it was a hospitality interview. And I showed up and, you know, Wonderful. Thank boss. is wearing, his trackies and an old are some. of the biggest challenges then I obviously was face overdressed, during hiring processes? it would be really helpful, I think, to have those sort of expectations set out more clearly, depending on the sorts of roles that you're applying for. And, yeah, also, I think another thing that was particularly challenging for me was sort of lack of clarity about what the role was going to be. And you you've touched on this prior in the prior sections, but I've had, experiences of applying for a role and then showing up, and it's completely different to what I expected. And that's very, you know, destabilizing. And like, was said before, I probably would never have applied to those roles if I had have known what was actually gonna, be in that role. For example, one of my first roles in an office, it was my job to go around and pick up after everyone, pick up all the cups and load the dishwasher. And, they never told me that I had to do that, and so I definitely wouldn't have applied if I had have known that I was gonna be the live in maid. Yeah. Definitely. That's an interesting one. I would say, pretty much all my interview experiences would be I would classify them as being misunderstood because, I really felt like I had to represent myself in a way that I would that was expected and that, was wanted to get the role. So, to be able to fit that those sorts of expectations, I really felt like that made me feel misunderstood as a person because I represent myself in one way in order to get the job, but then I have to keep, you know, holding this expectation up throughout employment. And not only is that. exhausting, but it really means that I particular actually get to connect with hiring colleagues on a on a level that is authentic. or that you were unable means that I miss? out on lots of opportunities to, you know, feel like I'm actually part of the team and contribute authentically. And that ultimately led to me just not being able to stay in jobs for very long and leading to that sort of patchwork career as as we've touched on before, where I have lots of different jobs, like, for a shorter period of time, and that, yeah, again, leads to further biasing in future recruitment. Yeah. Not to say that Aspect does this perfectly, but I will give the example of Aspect just because that was my most recent recruitment experience. And, obviously, us being an autism organization, you would expect or hope us to do this well, and I think that we do. So I'd love to share a couple of things that I, did during the recruitment experience there that I found really helpful. And it's similar to what Kristy shared, in her previous section, but explicitly welcoming autistic people to apply is really awesome because that just made me feel like, wow, this organization really. values different ways of. thinking and really values helps you feel, you know, up for success in, an interview? and that made me feel like the organization was the right fit for me. And you might say, yeah, the the culture fit. That made me feel like I would be a good culture fit because they, because of that explicit welcome. So that that was great. And also the job ad, just being really clear, yeah, as well, was was very helpful. But I'd say that probably the most, impactful thing that I experienced during my recruitment was getting the interview questions beforehand because I'm somebody who gets quite nervous, before interviews, and so there's a lot of anxiety generated around that, having to represent myself sort of on a whim without knowing what's gonna be asked. So having that time to prepare really, really set me up for success in a way that I've never experienced in any other job before, and I think that really just levels the playing field for everyone because, you know, obviously, you're not trying to test for how well someone can remember all the things they've done in the past. that are relevant. You're trying to test whether they would be good at the job. And so giving people the time to prepare those responses really is the best way to do that, I think. Yeah. I feel like I've mostly covered that, but I would say, so, obviously, starting with all those things, like, explicitly welcoming people, through every step of the process, so the job ad into, onboarding. But I'd say the most important thing would be to model this level of care that you've taken through to employment, and make sure that this isn't just something that you, do in recruitment and then ditch later in your organization because that's what's gonna. set people a. success, And that actually leads into our last just. a sort of tick box exercise. preparing, you with those, interview questions, is there any other ways a workplace do this, help make you feel more inclusive? we do at Essex, so feel free to get in touch. Amazing. Thank you so much, Edie. That we really appreciate your firsthand experience. It's very impactful and very helpful. That's going to lead us into our next poll question. So if we can get that up over there on the right hand side. Thanks, Kellie, and thanks everyone for responding to the poll. your current hiring processes honesty and noting that, obviously, for autistic we all kind of a lot of a. substantial portion of the of the audience notice, recognize that there was ways that, there's probably things that you can do to improve how then once we get those results So hopefully, going to hand back over to can, share over the next couple help minutes will, get you prepared you to do just that. for, that. firstly, what I'm gonna talk a little bit about is how we can bring, Alright. So I love that we've got that somewhat confident in person or live, video interviews, 63%. so that interview component. That's wonderful. To be honest, Edie brought a. lot of this to life. a lot, better and said a lot better some more I could in terms tools some of the coming up, like providing going to hand of time and. reducing that anxiety component there, making sure people have have that time to prepare and put their best foot forward and, represent themselves as best they can in that in those interview questions, as well as clear and comprehensive instructions, where to be, what to wear, how to access the platform if it's an online interview, as well as kind of including, inclusion statements similar to what we had at the outset of this session around making sure that, explicitly stating that things, kind of that you you can do to look after yourself, and make yourself feel comfortable are, okay within that interview, environment as well. And you're not going to be kind of, I guess, penalized for that. A big part of it as well is interviewer awareness of those biases and working with interviewers to make sure that they can mitigate those biases. So this might look like providing training to your interviewers so that they can spot some of the most consistent and common biases, but also can be looking at things like providing structured rating guides so that interviewers are more encouraged to rate based on purely job related components of interview questions rather than things like handshakes or eye contact or body language or things like that that aren't gonna be as related to job performance. And then as well, what you can do is look at revising your interview questions. So moving away from ambiguous, figurative, vague language to being a little bit little bit more concrete and structured with what you're asking. So I've provided an example at the bottom there. The first one, what experience do you have managing high workloads? Quite vague and broad. You can you can ask a similar question in a way by saying, think of an example. You had, lots of tasks to complete in a limited amount of time. What was the situation? What did you do? And what was the outcome? So it's being more concrete with asking for a specific example and it's providing that structure around, okay, tell us about the situation, what did you do, and what was that outcome? So helping to if we think back to what I was saying earlier around autistic candidates being more inclined to provide shorter and more concise responses, if you're providing this structure, it can help to kind of prompt them to make sure that they're including all the different aspects of the response that, you're gonna be expecting to hear as a as a, evaluator. And then as well, what you can do with those interview questions is make them less dependent on work experience. If people don't necessarily have extensive work experience, is there ways you can ask about, times that they've demonstrated those skills that weren't necessarily in a work environment that might have been in a different environment. And then, obviously, a big part of what we do at Hirevue is prerecorded video interviews, and a lot of the same things around kind of, providing questions in advance and things like that also apply to prerecorded video interviews. But prerecorded video interviews also provide opportunities that, can be, help to make them more inclusive as well around making sure that candidates have the opportunity to pause their responses, rerecord their responses if they're not happy with it. Again, just helping to kind of have practice questions, helping to make sure we're managing that kind of anxiety and making it more of a, inclusive experience. Again, it can also be taken kind of anywhere, anytime, so it reduces the requirement for people to kind of go places at certain times and things like that as well, and as well as kind of having that time to prepare and answer and, that best reflects their ability. So similar to kind of preparing, providing, quest interview questions in advance, making sure that candidates have the time to prepare their responses for those prerecorded video interviews. And then how we obviously, with prerecorded interviews being a big part of what we do at Hirevue, we've kind of made sure that we listen to our own advice here and made sure that the interview questions that we use in our AI scored interview questions have been reviewed to use wording that is more inclusive for autistic candidates. And then as well how that, AI scoring works of those video interviews. It's scoring based, purely on what candidates say, not their nonverbal behavior. So in essence, it's doing very similar to what that study found when we're evaluating transcripts of autistic candidates. They're they're being evaluated, similarly, if not better than non autistic candidates. So the AI scoring algorithms are doing a very similar process to that by evaluating just what is said, not what people are doing with their nonverbal behaviors. And then if we think about, assessments from an assessment perspective, really the key here is thinking about whether there's different modalities, that can potentially help to allow people who might have different strengths in different areas to leverage those to leverage those strengths and making sure that the assessment is related to the job, the job related requirements. So are there ways that we can move kind of get over some of those communication barriers that are present in interviews to allow candidates to show us what they can do rather than telling us what they can do? So if a job requires, you know, looking at, looking at information and verifying, that data, can we make sure that we're simulating that data verification exercise within an assessment so we're assessing those job related skills in a job related way as well. In terms of modalities as well, Hirevue's game based assessments, for example, have been shown to be inclusive for autistic candidates. So again, looking at the different modalities that we can use, through assessments to make sure that the assessment experience is as inclusive as it can be. And ultimately, the the most important thing throughout assessments, throughout interviews is making sure that what skills we're assessing are linked to the job requirements that we've identified through that job analysis process that Kristy mentioned right at the start. So all the things that we're asking about and all the things that we're assessing candidates on are related to what it actually takes to be successful in the job and aren't kind of other unrelated things that are gonna cause bias against against candidates. So with that said, I'm going to pass over to Kristy now to talk about how we can take it from, hiring and then once what we what we can do once we get those candidates into the organisation. Oh, Kristy, you're on mute there. Thank you, Jaymon. And apologies. You would think we'd learn or I would have learned that by now. So just rounding out really before we hand over to questions, from, those of you who are joining us today, is just really thinking about, inclusive onboarding. And so, you know, Edie, I think, spoke to this really beautifully at the end which is, you know, you can have the most inclusive recruitment process, but if that then, you know, contrasts and, contradicts almost the experience of onboarding, it can be quite detrimental, I think to the success, of that candidate's experience. So, you know, it doesn't stop at the offer acceptance, in terms of demonstrating that level of inclusive commitment and intention that as organizations you have. And it is thinking about, you know, how can you actually support really structured onboarding experiences. Again, really to support reducing that level of uncertainty, and ensuring that people feel that greatest sense of belonging and ability to be their authentic selves that Edie spoke to as well a little bit earlier. So, importantly, being able to provide as much preparation and predictability ahead of the time that that person's joining the organisation is really important. You know, thinking about what to wear, when to arrive, who they'll meet, what their first day might look like, even what their first week might look like. All of that supports, the level of preparation and predictability that we know can be hugely beneficial to autistic candidates. So thinking about how you can really embed that into the process and ensure that hiring managers are really supporting that experience for their new starters as well. I think, you know, we've mentioned a few times now about really being explicitly welcoming, of individuals and that that can really resonate quite strongly for autistic individuals feeling, almost that they've been given permission to be their authentic self. So, you know, a couple of things that you can think about, again, really embedding in the system ongoing when somebody started is, you know, respecting preferences for that individual. You know, a prime example might be, you know, it's very commonplace that when somebody new joins the team, you might have a whole team lunch or something like that. That individual might actually feel really uncomfortable, and that might not set them up for success as much as, what we may be geared to believe. So it, you know, just inquiring how would they best like to be welcomed in the team, what would, you know, help them feel comfortable and supported, is one way. Another way is really just also setting up regular check ins, throughout, you know, the onboarding period. Again, that should extend way beyond that first week, and, you know, explicitly normalizing needing to ask for help. So I've met with a huge number of autistic candidates, and many of them speak to their reluctance to ask questions because they fear that, they're going to be seen as unintelligent or not suitable or incompetent at doing the role. The more you can let them know that any question is a useful question, and it's not silly and can be asked at any point in time. And the more you can repeat and inform, the onboarding experience with that, the more helpful it can be, again, for autistic candidates to feel like they've got permission to be able to ask the questions that previously they may never have felt confident to ask. And then, you know, thinking about being clear and direct. And I think, you know, a couple of examples of how this might, come to life is really considering how you might be able to the administrative tasks of onboarding. So, you know, we often suggest that, you know, the unfortunate reality is most of our employment contracts are not written in plain English For people who have career gaps and nonlinear, paths of career progression, you know, they may have seen a lot of different varieties, but they may have a lot of questions. Being able to offer them somebody who could sit with them and help articulate any, answers to the questions that they may have, but also being able to just prompt them as to what needs to be completed and almost shadowing them through that process can be really beneficial as well. And, again, you know, I think this goes without saying we're all working in very complicated landscapes at the moment. There's a lot of AI platforms, a lot of internal comms platforms, you know, a lot of different synchronous and asynchronous kind of, you know, collaboration tools that we're using. But thinking about how you can best support as well and make really clear and direct that, I guess, instructions and onboarding for all of those systems, tools, and processes that may be utilized by those employees as well. In many of the organizations I've worked for, I know it can be particularly complex. And sometimes the IT pieces, you know, you just cross your fingers and hope that it's going to work out, but something there for you to think about how you can really structure that and be able to make sure that it's really quite clear and direct. And then I think just lastly, you know, embedding structured support. So throughout the process, you know, hopefully, you've asked whether or not those candidates require any accommodations or adjustments. You know, you may have conducted, as, you know, Jaymon has spoken to, pre hire assessments, as well. And any of what those things may inform you of about that candidate, thinking about how you can embed those and inform that onboarding experience with that information as well can be really important. So it just doesn't feel like that candidate is actually repeating themselves multiple times, but they've said it once and that's been heard and flows through to their experience when they're starting the role as well. And with that, I might hand back over to Kelly for audience Q and A with the last few minutes that we have of the session time. Thanks, Kelly. I'm happy yeah. I'm happy to take that one, Kelly. And thank you very much for the question. So, this. comes down to, so much, Kristy, and thank you, the, umbrella term well neurodivergence, for that incredibly was shared. a little bit earlier on one of, the slides. great tools, It's actually great things that we can take away and and roll out into number own, practices. conditions, So we, do have a few questions that. have come through. it includes go, ahead and instance, sort of throw them out, to the panel. but also ADHD, So our first question, is, can I, ask why autism is pulled out as a, separate word in the webinar Aspect, title, we are very the poll? that our expertise why it isn't, included under the neurodiverse. I work. alongside a predominantly autistic? team. We educate. I'm gonna, say that the Christie question. students. We support autistic adults, with community access and those sorts of things. We don't profess to speak on behalf of every, I guess kind of clarification of neurodivergent. We do recognise that there is a lot of, I guess co occurring conditions. Autism and ADHD can be quite, well represented and prevalent, as co occurring conditions. But we're very specific, about the advice we offer and that this is quite specific to autistic candidates. We do know though that the information in the guideline is no doubt, both helpful to other candidates who may be neurodivergent, but also other candidates just more broadly speaking in creating more inclusive experiences for them as well. But that is, the reason why we pull it out quite explicitly, talking to the strength and expertise that we have as an organisation and the people that we also co design, a lot of our work and resources with who are autistic and whilst they might have co occurring conditions, we don't profess that they extend and represent the whole spectrum of neurodivergence. I'm happy to answer that one again. I think you know fundamentally, one of the core principles for Aspect is that we are always working in partnership with autistic people, with lived experience. So, that means we have things like an Aspect advisory council who are made up of autistic people external to the organisation but support us on strategic direction and guidance. We also have an Aspect think tank who again are external autistic, Thanks, Kristy. That was a great response. professionals but providing more Next question is, for us. how was the Aspect said, I work with a predominantly, autistic was it co designed with autistic. people? So, this guide was pulled together, informed not only through all of that experience, in. but also the experience I've been really fortunate to have, which is conducting lived experience, consultations with a number of external, individuals who are connected to us through our networks or have just reached out expressing interest in wanting to talk to us, about this. So, I can, hands on heart, say that, you know, the entire guide has been, generated through the insights and generous sharing of lived experience that a significant number of people have had. That again really speaks to the authenticity of the guidance and direction that we're wanting to provide as well. Amazing. Thank you so much, Kristy. And I can't believe we are already at 01:00 that flew by. We will we do have a couple more questions, that we can share with you in the resources. Just wanna touch on the key takeaways and next steps. You will also get this along with the guide, just so you've got some information on how you can evaluate your own organization, some of the tools that Hirevue can offer along with, some really great resources, that, Aspect has on their website. And finally, just a quick, well, it's not a quick slide, but a a slide full of information on how you, can help support the autistic community. There's. some great people that you can follow on. Instagram. There's, Thanks, actions. and advocacy that you can take on board and recognizing some of those, autism understanding month and the autistic pride day as well. And, also, I'll just call out the assembly on ABC TV. It's absolutely fantastic if you ever have a chance to see that. So thank you again for your time. Thank you, Edie, Kristy, Jaymon. This has been absolutely fabulous. We really appreciate, you as a community, supporting and participating and how we can really make our hiring more inclusive for everybody, especially the autistic and neurodivergent community. So thank you again, and, go enjoy your lunch if you haven't eaten yet. Thanks. Take care. Bye bye.